Episode 48 Clean Pillar

Spotify Apple Podcasts YouTube Amazon Music Share

Copy link Email a friend Share on Facebook Share on LinkedIn

Copy link Email a friend Share on Facebook Share on LinkedIn

Ep. 49

The Earthquake, the Eczema, and the Warrior: Natalie Novak’s Full Story (Part 2)

Ep. 34

Overwhelmed in Perimenopause? Here Is Exactly Where to Start

INTRO

Okay, can we talk about something for just a second? I hit my 40s and started breaking out. Actual acne, the kind that you think you left behind in high school. No, my friends. Turns out hormones had other plans. And then once things started to settle down after I did some menopause hormone therapy, they pulled a second trick: melasma.

So now, while on this fertility journey, I am also the woman who cannot touch a retinol A anymore, standing in front of the mirror trying to figure out what my skin is doing and why nobody warned me there would be a round two. I care about clean ingredients, so my routine has always been very, very basic: plain jojoba oil, things I can look at on Environmental Working Group and feel good about putting on my face.

But here’s the really annoying part. Most truly clean products are not exactly performance products. They calm things down, but they do not always give me the results I am actually looking for. And your face, especially when you are out in the world, and in my case on camera every single week, changes how you feel, how you show up, and how confident you are. I would always rather my skin do all of that work than rely on makeup to cover it up.

That is exactly why I am so excited for today’s conversation. Natalie Novak is a celebrity aesthetician with over 30 years in the industry and the co-founder of KPS Essentials, Kindness Powered Skincare. Back in 1987, she was working at a high-end skincare brand when an earthquake hit and a bottle of their product spilled and dissolved the carpet underneath it. She looked at that ruined carpet and asked herself one question: if this is what these chemicals do to fabric, what are they doing to our skin?

That question sent her on a nearly 40-year path to build a line of organic, wild-gathered, food-grade skincare, clean enough to be trusted in oncology care and gentle enough to be used by naturopaths and functional medicine doctors during pregnancy. Through KPS’s partnership with Hello Gorgeous Foundation, that same care extends to women navigating cancer, giving them something as simple and as powerful as feeling like themselves again when they look in the mirror.

Natalie actually sent me her at-home facial kit ahead of this conversation, and I have to say, it felt so good on my skin, and it smells amazing. There is nothing worse than facial products sitting under your nose that smell medicinal.

I am so glad that you are joining us today, and I cannot wait for you to hear all of the incredible tips that Natalie is going to share with us. Natalie, welcome to Mornings with Megan.

Natalie: Thank you. How are you? It’s so wonderful to be here.

Megan: It’s so wonderful for you to be here with me. I am excited and jazzed to have you here so you can talk about this beautiful product, but I think more importantly because you know about the bigger question, which is perimenopausal skin.

Natalie: Yes indeed. It’s so much fun, isn’t it?

Megan: So let’s start there. Let’s zoom out. What actually changes and happens to the skin once we hit perimenopause?

Natalie: So many things, Megan. It’s an interesting journey if you haven’t been on it yet, and there are things to come. Everything is changing, the signaling is changing within the cells. Here’s what’s really going on: your skin is going to become a lot more dehydrated. You’re going to start to feel an extra layer over your skin that had never been there before because there’s so much dehydration going on.

Our skin is also losing the hormones we’ve had before to regulate, and so now that those are shifting, all the chemistry is changing within the body. We see it through acne, we can see it through dryness, or what we call glycation. Glycation is when your skin is aging at a rapid rate. It can be caused from eating too much sugar, because it attaches to the collagen and damages the collagen.

What’s really happening underneath that is we have a layer of fascia underneath our skin that covers all the connective tissue, our joints and muscles and everything. That starts to get really tight and brittle, and when that happens, our deep wrinkles start to show up. It typically happens around the nasolabial fold and the marionette lines and the chin, and that’s where we see it first. People who are heavy smokers will see glycation at a rapid rate. People who have been sun worshippers will also see glycation at a rapid rate. It’s one of the things that comes as we age. However, we’ve figured out a way to reverse it, and that’s the exciting part. There really truly is hope.

Megan: We love hope. So with that glycation piece, is that similar to or related to oxidative stress in the skin?

Natalie: That’s an excellent question. Here’s what’s going on with oxidative stress: when our cells are healthy, they are perfectly round. When free radicals come in, sun exposure, environmental toxins, it could literally be that you’re at a stoplight and you’ve got that car’s exhaust coming through the air vents in your car, that is creating oxidative stress in your skin. What we never really think about is that our skin is our largest organ. It’s there to protect the rest of our body, and it’s absorbing things. So it’s something we need to be mindful of.

When your cells are perfectly round, our skin looks plump and youthful. But when oxidative stress hits, it’s actually rusting that occurs over the cell, and that’s when the cell is no longer perfectly round, and that’s when wrinkles start to form. Glycation and oxidative stress are two separate things, glycation is the fascia getting more brittle, but they both lead to the same outcome: aging and damage to the cells, which means deeper wrinkles on the outside.

Megan: I would imagine if we’re looking aged on the outside, these things are also happening inside our bodies as well.

Natalie: Absolutely. Glycation occurs everywhere in the body, it can happen in the heart, it can happen everywhere. Eating sugar is not a good thing. There’s literally bacteria within our gut that triggers our brain to tell us we want more, so we get these cravings. When you create that ritual out of it for years, it creates inflammation in the gut and issues within the skin. It’s hard to find ways to get that same satisfaction from natural sources like date syrup instead of refined sugar.

Megan: So it sounds like there’s a diet piece and a hydration piece and a hormonal piece all happening at the same time. Is that where the hope you were talking about, this reversible change, is looped in with the hydration and diet piece, or is there more?

Natalie: There’s really more. There’s so much going on within the body because what we’re trying to do with our products is bring the skin back into homeostasis, we have a very root-cause approach to everything we do. Products on the market designed for aging specifically are most of the time laden with chemicals, and chemicals are basically a foreign object to the body that the body doesn’t know what to do with. That creates more havoc because the body can’t process it.

Our bodies are all designed, we all come from the earth, and Mother Nature has provided everything we need. I’m talking about plants, and every single plant has a different property that supports a different part of the body. My partner Ron is a genius, and he’s figured out how to utilize different components to actually help the body. What I’m talking about when I say hope is that we’ve created a product called Renew Eternal Youth Serum. It’s got our DermaNu Technology, so it focuses on adding collagen back into the skin and adding hydration storage. Most products just sit on the surface of the skin, this actually creates hydration storage within the cells. And it adds volume, which is one of the things we lose during perimenopause because those hormones are leaving our body. That’s why it’s really important to work out and do strength training at this stage of life, it helps keep our bones stronger, it’s good for our skin, and it keeps the body in homeostasis and helps with stress.

Megan: We definitely love all of that. I think volume and plumpness is one of those things we notice starting to decline. When I think about old nineties Vogues, when people first started having face work done, one of the mistakes was taking out fat in women’s faces, which made them look so much older. Their skin was tight, but they looked very gaunt. These fat deposits, this collagen, this plumpness, is what we want, which makes us feel youthful. Maybe when we’re younger we don’t want plump cheeks, but now that’s all I want all day long: plump cheeks that say I got smiles and a little volume in there.

Natalie: You’re absolutely right. Here’s what happens as our body matures: we’ve got chondroitin sulfate in our skin that’s responsible for that plumpness, and that chondroitin sulfate leaves our face and goes into our joints, where our body needs it more at that stage of life, which is unfortunate. Especially women who are working out really hard, over 50, they get really gaunt. That Renew Eternal Youth Serum helps bring back that collagen and volume. We also use coenzyme Q10, which contains ATP, adenosine triphosphate, that sends energy into the cell, the mitochondria, the brain of the cell, to energize the skin and plump the adipose tissue, that fat layer underneath.

Megan: We love that. We want plump fat on our face, ladies. This is not something we want to get rid of. So what is the difference someone needs to think about when they’re transitioning their skincare routine from their 30s into perimenopause? I remember going for what they called more mature products at Sephora once and being told, no, those aren’t for you. I’m wondering how we have to think about that changing as our skin is maturing, dealing with glycation and oxidative stress.

Natalie: Exactly. There are quite a few things to think about. If you’re one of those women who at the end of the day loves your glass of wine and wants to check out and relax, and you fall asleep on the couch and go to bed without washing your face: every time you’re not removing environmental toxins and dirt and oil, even sunscreen pigments and especially makeup pigments, you are aging yourself 11 days every time you skip that cleansing routine. So I’d recommend, before you have your glass of wine and get too tired, get focused on cleansing your face first.

Megan: Eleven days per wash? That seems highly unfair.

Natalie: We have this aromatherapy cleansing oil, you probably tried that in your kit, and it smells lovely. It actually triggers the olfactory nerves to calm the nervous system down as you massage it in, and that aromatherapy benefit is really nice because it triggers those nerves, your body starts to calm down, and then you wash it off with a warm washcloth. That removes environmental toxins as well as makeup and sunscreen pigments. You’ve got to get that out of the way because that creates a barrier contributing to free radicals and oxidative stress. So step one: cleanse.

Megan: Yes, step one, wash our faces. Ladies, stop going to bed with makeup on. What are some other big mistakes you see women in perimenopause making with their skincare routine?

Natalie: You can walk into a Sephora and feel like there are a thousand products, and it’s so hard to choose what’s clean, what’s best for your age. I love to challenge women to be super mindful about what they’re choosing to put on their largest organ. If you walk into a store and purchase something, you assume it must be safe and good for your body, but sadly that’s not the truth. You have to be super savvy about what you’re choosing to put on your largest organ. Read your labels, understand the level of toxicity. The best way to test that is EWG.org, that’s the Environmental Working Group. On a scale of one being safest and cleanest, ten being most toxic, it’ll tell you about the products in your bathroom. Take your top five, don’t get overwhelmed thinking you have 45 products and no time. Just the top five. Figure out what you’re currently using and whether it’s adding to the health of your skin or taking away from it.

And I want to give everybody a homework assignment, because this is going to be a tangible thing that helps shift their mindset. We don’t realize that from the moment we wake up, brushing our teeth, showering with shampoo and conditioner, more hair care products, body products, makeup, deodorant, how many chemicals have we come into contact with by the end of the day? It could be hundreds, and if you’re using a lot of perfumed products, it could be in the thousands. The EPA has only tested 200 chemicals on the market for our industry, and there are 200,000-plus chemicals out there. We don’t know what the rest are doing. That’s concerning because these chemicals are disrupting hormones, which is speeding up conditions like perimenopausal symptoms and autoimmune disorders.

So here’s the homework assignment: take a raw clove of garlic, peel it, cut it in half, and with your bare foot, step on the cut side. Count how many seconds it takes before you taste that garlic in your mouth. That’s how you know how quickly you’re absorbing things through your skin.

Megan: I am excited about this because I have never done this. I’m going to get off this interview right now and cut open a garlic clove. Okay, I’m excited about this, I think that’s a really great homework assignment. Perhaps another one, for the non-garlic people, would be to count the number of products they’re putting on before they head out the door every morning, just to gauge how many things are coming in contact with their body and skin. Then we could think about checking our top five with the Environmental Working Group to see where we lie in that space.

Natalie: Exactly, a hundred percent. It’s such a fun thing to do, it actually becomes a fun thing, because when you start to educate yourself and learn, you start reading labels and making better choices for your skin and body.

Megan: I always want to know what I’m putting on and in my body. The Environmental Working Group, the Skin Deep database, which we’ll link to in the show notes, is such a fabulous tool. It gives you so much information, and they have a barcode scanner, so even if your product isn’t in there, you can search individual ingredients. You can also use ChatGPT or Gemini to do the same thing, ask it to run the ingredients through EWG for you, which is really convenient.

Natalie: That’s a fast way, I didn’t even think about that, great idea. There’s also an app called Yuka as well.

Megan: Yes, so much faster, makes it so much easier. And there’s also Think Dirty. So you’ve got three options for places to check where your ingredients lie on the chemical scale.

Natalie: The Think Dirty app, if I could say one thing about that, it’s not quite the same as the other two. There are companies that can buy their way into getting ratings on Think Dirty, so it’s just not quite as legitimate. What I love about EWG is they force us to send all the information about our products and ingredients, and then they actually do the research, which takes time. Once they do, it’s there for good, so it’s a really nice third-party way to do it legitimately.

Megan: So you had to send all your third-party testing to EWG, and they verified your data against their database as far as ingredients are concerned?

Natalie: They do their own testing, they have multiple scientists, they really do the research.

Megan: That makes me feel a little better. Okay guys, I’m revoking my suggestion of Think Dirty after Natalie’s informed me, and we’re just going to stick with Environmental Working Group as our go-to. That’s the one I usually share with people, but I always try not to be a one-trick pony. It sounds like Environmental Working Group is winning this one, so we should stick with that.

So I’m going to take a bit of a turn here and bring us back to some things that come up during perimenopause. I would love to know a little about what melasma is and how it’s different from pigmentation changes we might be experiencing from sun exposure or something else.

Natalie: It’s basically a hormonal shift again. When you’re out in the sun, and this is the perfect time of year because everybody’s been enjoying the sun all summer, but as they lose their tan, their hyperpigmentation starts to show up, and they’re thinking, my gosh, I need to start using retinols. That’s caused by the sun. But then you’ve got melasma, which is actually a hormone shift within the body creating that melanin. It can be very patchy, different from that freckling look of hyperpigmentation, it can be a big huge patch across the face, or cover a large portion, even on the neck. It can also be caused by medications. It’s a tough one to tackle sometimes because of what’s happening internally with the hormones, it’s hard to reverse.

But we found a way, Ron figured out a way to block the tyrosinase, the enzyme that stops melanin production. We have a product called Renew Lumen that helps lighten that, for hyperpigmentation as well as melasma.

Megan: Good to know. There are options, and it might take a while, but something. And retinol A is obviously not safe while someone is pregnant, so that’s also a thought process. I know your product is something doctors and naturopaths have been using during pregnancy. So it seems like with the food-grade products you’ve been sourcing, people feel comfortable using them. With a lot of my audience being in that age bracket where retinol A is numero uno friend for our face, what do they need to know about using retinol A and sun exposure and the risk of that?

Natalie: I’m so glad you asked that question, Megan, because I think most of us get so busy that we just put it on at night and wash our face in the morning, and people forget to wear sunscreen. The most important thing about a prescription retinal is that if you are not protecting your skin, you are in trouble, it says this right on the label, because your skin is actually more prone to getting sun damage, which means later on more concerning things like melanoma. And here’s the other interesting thing: once you apply these products, it’s creating a chemical reaction within the skin, releasing formaldehydes and things like that, which are also carcinogenic. So you want to be super careful and use it exactly the way your doctor tells you. If you’re very sensitive, it also creates a lot of peeling and sensitivity, your skin can become thinner, so you want to be cautious of that. There are other ways to do it too, there are natural retinols you can use to get that same effect, and again you want to focus on products that reverse oxidative stress, like the Renew Eternal Youth I mentioned, because that’s exactly what those other products are doing anyway.

Megan: Is that the mechanism of action, that they’re trying to reduce oxidative stress?

Natalie: Correct, a hundred percent, because that’s going to be the fastest thing to age us.

Megan: Right, the oxidative stress. We’re worried about it everywhere. That’s why we’re trying to get everyone to eat their fruits and vegetables, so we can combat and quash those free radicals. This is just another piece of that picture.

CLOSE

That is such a good place to pause for today. We covered so much ground: what is actually happening to our skin during perimenopause with glycation and oxidative stress, how to think about rebuilding your routine as your skin changes, why clean ingredients matter more right now, and how to use tools like the Environmental Working Group to check what is really in your products. We also got into melasma and hyperpigmentation, and if you are one of my retinol A devotees, Natalie gave us some really important guidance on sun protection you need to hear.

Next Wednesday, Natalie is back for part two, and this is the conversation I am most excited for you to hear. We are getting into autoimmune skin conditions like rosacea, eczema, and psoriasis and why they show up so much more in this decade, Natalie’s own story of how she went from a Nordstrom counter to building her entire skincare line from scratch, and her partnership with the Hello Gorgeous Foundation, which might be my favorite part of this whole conversation.

Thank you for being here with us this morning. I will see you next Wednesday for part two.